Live Interactive Chat

Answers to Questions (Transcript)

June 17, 2002

Father/Male Involvement in Early Childhood Programs

Brent A. McBride
Associate Professor of Human Development and Director of the Child Development Laboratory, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

See also: Biography and Related Resources

IELmoderator
Greetings, IEL Chat participants. Welcome to our IEL Chat on Father/Male Involvement in Early Childhood Programs. To get started, let me introduce our guest speaker, Brent McBride, Associate Professor of Human Development and Director of the Child Development Laboratory at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

Brent McBride
Hi! I'm pleased to be here tonight to talk with you about ways to encourage father/male involvement in early childhood programs.

IELmoderator
The procedure for the live Chat session is as follows. Participants can send questions to the Chat guest at any time. When you send your question, please note that it will not be visible to all Chat participants. The IEL Moderator receives the question first and will post it to the whole Chat group. If there's a long queue of questions, the Moderator will notify the questioner that the question was received. Then, at the next break in the discussion, the question will be posted for all to see and for our guest to answer.

IELmoderator
Note that there will be a pause after a question is posted while Dr. McBride composes his answer to the question. During these pauses, the Moderator will post occasional information about the IEL Web site.

IELmoderator
Questions will be posted in the order they're received, unless there's some obvious reason to group similar questions together. Participants may send follow-up questions. If your question is not answered by the time the Chat session ends at 8 pm, the question and its answer will be included in the Chat transcript that will be made available online approximately 2 weeks from today.

IELmoderator
After all that procedural information, let me remind Chat participants that you can find the text of the recently completed Illinois Early Learning Standards on the IEL Web site at this URL: http://illinoisearlylearning.org/standards/index.htm. The standards relate to the learning areas of: (1) Language Arts, (2) Mathematics, (3) Science, (4) Social Science, (5) Physical Development and Health, (6) Fine Arts, (7) Foreign Languages, and (8) Social/Emotional Development.

IELmoderator
Now let's begin our Chat. Dr. McBride, we have a question that we received in advance of the session.

What are the benefits to children, to programs, and to families to increasing father/male involvement in early childhood?

Brent McBride
The benefits of getting fathers/males involved are very similar to the benefits derived when we get mothers involved. For children it reinforces for them the importance of education (i.e., school must be important if my father is here), it gives them a chance to see their fathers (and men in general) in a different role than usual, and it increases their self-esteem (i.e., I must be important and my father cares about me since he comes to my school). For the families, it gives fathers a chance to develop a better understanding and appreciation of what goes on at school and what the program is trying to achieve, and how fathers might better help their children. For schools, getting fathers/men involved provides support for the teachers, allows the teachers to establish a relationship with the father/family, and provides them with another adult who can supplement and enhance the activities and learning going on in the classroom.

Beyond the general benefits derived from parental involvement, getting fathers involved in early childhood programs provides a model of men in nurturing and caring roles. Early childhood programs tend to be female-dominated environments, with few opportunities for children to be exposed in such settings to positive male role models. It is important for young children to see men and women in a variety of roles. Getting fathers involved in early childhood programs is one way for children to see men in nurturing and caring roles.

IELmoderator
Chat participants may now send their questions at any time.

jpm
Thanks for being here, Dr. McBride. This question has come up more than once when I'm talking with parents, and I don't feel my answers are very good. For single women who are bringing up sons under the age of 5, when the father is not involved--how concerned should they be about their sons not having father figures? What do you think are some useful tips to offer them so they can feel confident about what they are doing?

Brent McBride
First off, you should try to make single mothers not feel "guilty" but then work with them to find out what men "are" in those children's lives. If we restrict our efforts to biological fathers, then we are really restricting ourselves, and we will miss out on many men who can impact children's lives.

Nancy AL
When you use the term "male involvement," do you mean family members or men as teachers, also?

IELmoderator
While Dr. McBride is preparing an answer to Nancy's question, let me remind you that you can find more information on Father/Male Involvement in Early Childhood Programs on a resource page on the IEL Web site. This page is available at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/chat/mcbride/sup.htm.

Brent McBride
Nancy, when we talk about "male involvement," what we mean is "any positive male role models for these children." For example, grandfathers, uncles, older siblings, active males in the neighborhood, bus drivers, etc....

barry
The current problem with child abuse in the Catholic Church again raised an issue that is not new for our field, and it gives plausible "rationale" for bias against "the way guys do thing," as well as for acquiescing to male phobia and homophobia. What are the ways you recommend dealing with these issues?

Brent McBride
Barry, we need to be "up front" in why we want to encourage father involvement and acknowledge that men and women approach working with children in different ways. If we exclude working with fathers based on these phobias, we will miss opportunities to positively impact children.

IELmoderator
Dr. McBride, here's a question we received prior to the Chat: Are there some model programs for getting fathers involved in early childhood?

Brent McBride
A variety of models and approaches have been used as early childhood programs have sought to encourage fathers and men to become involved in their programs. Jim Levine put together a book titled Getting Men Involved: Strategies for Early Childhood Programs that provides an excellent overview of some of the different types of programs and models that have been used to encourage father/male involvement. Although somewhat dated (i.e., 1993), it is still an excellent resource for early childhood educators wanting to begin exploring this issue.

More recently, there have been several national initiatives such as the Fatherhood Initiative at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the National Center on Fathers and Families that have developed resources to guide practitioners as they explore ways to encourage father/male involvement in their programs. As part of the Fatherhood Initiative, Head Start has been instrumental in providing leadership in recent years in developing resources and materials for encouraging father involvement in early childhood programs. The key when exploring how to get started on this issue is to be sure that there is a match between the model and/or approach you have selected to use and the needs and desires of your target populations of fathers/men.

IELmoderator
Remember that the IEL Web site is available not only in English but also in Spanish. The Spanish home page is at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/index-sp.htm.

Dr. McBride, here's our next question: Why have fathers/men been less involved in early childhood than women/mothers? What are the chief obstacles to their involvement?

Brent McBride
This is a loaded question. There are several reasons why fathers/men are not as involved in early childhood programs as mothers/women. I'll just list a few of them and then see which ones the participants in this Chat pick up on to go into more detail: (1) Parenting of young children is perceived as women's work, and fathers are incapable of providing high-quality types of parenting at an early age. (2) Teachers have a bias against encouraging father/male involvement. (3) Fathers are perceived as the primary reason children have problems (e.g., abandonment, failure to pay support, etc.), and thus should not be encouraged to become involved in early childhood programs. (4) Fathers, especially those from low-income and high-risk backgrounds, may feel inadequate when it comes to parenting and education issues, and thus avoid interactions with early childhood programs. (5) Due to the gendered nature of the field, fathers are often made to feel unwelcome in early childhood programs. (6) Early childhood teachers are not trained on how to establish effective home/school partnerships with families, especially with fathers. These are just a few of the many reasons why men do not typically become involved in early childhood programs.

jpm
Thanks for your suggestion about single mothers. It troubled me that some of the women did seem to feel guilty or inadequate if they couldn't somehow get male involvement for their sons. I was full of admiration for their ability to "keep it together!" But still they felt like they needed ideas, I guess. The issue Barry touched on seemed to concern them (even before the scandal broke). Are there one or two good tips or rules of thumb I might offer those moms who have asked, outside of just being supportive?

Brent McBride
jpm--The first question is to ask these single moms "why" they feel that they need to have male involvement in their children's lives. Are they looking for a disciplinarian, buddy, co-educator for the child, etc.? Once you find this out, you can start directing them to possible men that they can connect to their children.

jpm
Okay, I can't resist--can you say more about teachers having a bias against father/male involvement? Are they seeing dads as the source of problems (as in your point #3)?

Brent McBride
Definitely, especially in low-income and high-risk family situations. The father's failures are perceived as the reasons why these children are in this situation.

Also, such perceptions take a "deficit view" of looking at fathers. Basically they "take away" rather than give to the family.

Nancy AL
It seems to me that fathers in this generation are more involved than their own fathers, perhaps due to less traditional roles in the home and in the workplace. I've seen many fathers help as coaches for young children's sports, for example. Is this a good way for men to get involved in a way they find rewarding?

Brent McBride
Nancy, my first suggestion to ALL early childhood teachers is to take men from where they are at personally. If they are comfortable, say, coaching, then start from there.

IELmoderator
An IEL Tip Sheet recently uploaded to the IEL Web site is "Encouraging Words," which offers suggestions for using helpful words to show appreciation to your children without sounding like empty praise. This Tip Sheet is available at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/tipsheets/encouragingwords.htm. It is also available in Spanish as "Palabras Animadoras" at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/tipsheets-sp/encouragingwords-sp.htm.

IELmoderator
Dr. McBride, here's our next question: What are some effective ways to overcome those obstacles to involvement?

Brent McBride
As mentioned earlier, there are many different types of barriers to getting fathers/men involved in early childhood programs, each of which requires different strategies for breaking down the barriers. Three important things must happen though in order for teachers and programs to begin addressing how these barriers can be removed. First, there must be a "buy-in" to the notion that encouraging father involvement is important. If teachers and staff members don't truly believe that they, their programs, and the children and families they work with will benefit from such efforts, their attempts to encourage father/male involvement will not be successful.

Second, teachers need to be provided support (e.g., training, resources, time, etc.) in order for them to be able to successfully develop initiatives to encourage father/male involvement. Finally, teachers and programs need to be specific about who will be the targets of their efforts (e.g., fathers, biological fathers, stepfathers, father figures, etc.), and why they are focusing their efforts on this group.

barry
Why might teachers be biased against men in a preschool classroom, one wonders. Since we know from the research that perhaps 90% of programs are not "high quality," is it possible that in addition to not being part of the way we do things in early childhood, the men are also more threatening in an environment where mostly women are responsible for programs that are overenrolled, under-resourced, and poorly supported in terms of money, training, respect, and support?

Brent McBride
Barry, I agree that men can be a "threat" in the classroom and may be perceived as "invading their turf" (that of women); however, I think it goes beyond that.

IELmoderator
Dr. McBride, here's our next question: What are specific activities fathers and preschoolers may particularly enjoy doing together?

Brent McBride
Whenever I work with early childhood teachers on this issue, I always tell them to go slow and start out where the fathers/men are at in their own personal development. You can't expect all men to be able to just come in, participate in circle time activities, read books to children, and play in the dramatic play area. If you immediately ask fathers to do these kinds of things when they come to your programs, there is a high probability they will not return. This means that they may just come in at the beginning to hang out and watch what is going on, or perhaps do something they would be more comfortable with (e.g., playing basketball with the children, doing "fix up" tasks, etc.). If you start where they are comfortable in terms of activities, you can slowly move them out of their adult worlds and into the world of young children.

IELmoderator
Another IEL Tip Sheet recently uploaded to the IEL Web site is "Helping Children Develop Impulse Control." This Tip Sheet is available at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/tipsheets/impulsecontrol.htm.

Nancy AL
Perhaps another advantage to getting men involved would be broadening the support for high-quality early childhood programs.

Brent McBride
Nancy, I agree. I jokingly say that if you want to "upgrade the status of the early childhood profession, just get more men involved." Sad to say, this is probably true. Will it ever happen? I cannot say.

IELmoderator
Dr. McBride, here's another question: What factors may discourage men from becoming teachers or caregivers in early childhood programs?

Brent McBride
The issues revolving around having men as teachers in early childhood programs are different from those related to encouraging father/male parental involvement in such programs. As a male who has worked in the early childhood field for over 20 years as a classroom teacher, program administrator, and college instructor, I do have a good sense of what these issues are though. From my perspective, the two biggest barriers to having more male early childhood teachers are the extremely low wages we pay our teachers (this is still a society where men are expected to be primary wage earners who provide financially for their families) and the gendered nature of the field (there is a definite bias within the profession against male teachers). You open up a Pandora's box when you start discussing how to address these two issues.

jpm
So are you saying, then, that sometimes women in early childhood education, the teachers at least, don't really know how to talk to the fathers about becoming involved in appropriate ways, or that they may have different expectations, or that the fathers don't know, or at least don't feel confident about what to do, or all of the above?

Brent McBride
jpm--Yes to all. If you watch female early childhood teachers interacting with men, it is typically at a surface level, if at all. Early childhood teachers need to learn the way men and women communicate differently, the way we both parent differently, and the different styles we have in interacting with children. We then need to appreciate and build upon these differences.

IELmoderator
IEL staff members give workshops and presentations throughout the state. If you're interested in attending such a workshop, please see the schedule of workshops on IEL's "Workshop and Exhibit Schedule" page at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/workshops.htm or contact the IEL staff if you'd like to arrange for a workshop in your area.

barry
I'd like to know if I can arrange to be notified by email when the transcript of this session is available.

IELmoderator
Barry, you anticipated my next posting: Please note that this Chat session is being transcribed. The transcription of the session will be made available in both English and Spanish approximately 2 weeks from now. Please watch the Chat page on the IEL Web site for the transcript. That page is at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/chat.htmEditor's note: This url has changed: http://illinoisearlylearning.org/askanexpert.htm#pastchat.

However, if you want to receive an email notice, you can send this request to the IEL staff at iel@uiuc.edu.

IELmoderator
Dr. McBride, here's another question: What differences (if any) have been found in early childhood programs where males are the teachers/caregivers?

Brent McBride
Although I am not engaged in research on this topic, I seriously doubt there would be many differences beyond those related to the presentation of positive male role models for the children. I would think that the key attributes needed to be a successful female early childhood teacher would apply to males as well. This is not to minimize the positive impact that males can have as early childhood teachers. I think it is important that young children (both boys and girls) see men and women in a variety of roles. Children rarely have the opportunity to see men in nurturing, caring roles, especially as teachers. Having more men as classroom teachers would be one way to address this. I'd be curious to learn if any of the participants in this Chat are aware of recent research looking at the impact of male early childhood teachers.

jpm
This is something I hadn't thought about before, but getting back to the issue of early childhood teachers interacting superficially with fathers--what do you recommend we do as individuals and in the field to lead us to greater appreciation and ability to build on the differences you mention?

Brent McBride
Just the fact that we do things differently is sometime hard to admit. This is to say that we don't do them better or worse, just differently. If I, as a father, want to engage in rough-and-tumble play with my 4-year-old, I am involved. Take that as a first step and build upon it.

IELmoderator
The transcript of the previous IEL Live Chat session from June 5, 2002, on "Integrating the Illinois Early Learning Standards and Performance Assessment," with Barbara Grace, should be available on the IEL Web site around the end of this week. You will find this transcript listed on the IEL Chat page at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/chat/beneke/trans.htm. A Spanish translation of the transcript will be listed on the Spanish Chat page at http://illinoisearlylearning.org/chat/beneke/trans-sp.htm.

Nancy AL
Do you think television shows or films that portray men caring for children in a "cute" way, such as Kindergarten Cop or Three Men and a Baby, encourage the idea that it's funny to have men involved with babies and young children?

Brent McBride
Nancy, I get irritated when I see these shows because they just reinforce negative stereotypes. Men are just as capable of providing competent parenting as women if given the support and resources to do so. We can do more than just play.

IELmoderator
IEL has two additional live Chat sessions scheduled over the next month and a half. The next Chat session addresses the topic of "Getting Ready for Kindergarten." The Chat guest will be LaDonna Helm, a kindergarten teacher at Leal School in Urbana, Illinois. This session is scheduled for July 15, 2002, again from 7-8 pm Central Time.

In the second of the upcoming Chat sessions, Jill Moore of the Early Learning Center in Champaign, Illinois, will address the topic of "Getting Ready for Preschool/Day Care." This Chat session will be held on July 30, 2002, from 7-8 pm Central Time.

IELmoderator
Dr. McBride, here's another question: How can early childhood programs encourage more father/male participation?

Brent McBride
In a chapter that was recently published in the edited book titled Clinical and Educational Interventions with Fathers, I outlined several issues that early childhood programs should address as they begin exploring how to encourage more father/male participation in their programs. I'll just list them below and then see which ones participants in the Chat would like to discuss in further detail: (1) acknowledge resistance to such efforts, (2) be specific in your rationale for such efforts, (3) clearly specify the targets of your efforts, (4) don't reinvent the wheel, (5) provide staff members with training and support, (6) help women become facilitators of such efforts, (7) involve mothers in developing such initiatives, (8) continue to meet the needs of mothers, and (9) proceed slowly. These suggestions were based on our experiences in developing and evaluating father/male involvement initiatives in early childhood programs serving low-income and high-risk families.

barry
I also observe that men and women tend to have different communication styles, as linguists and sociologists have also found in scientific research, and I think there is more to it than that. I think that for many men, entering a child care environment is not only unfamiliar, but one which has rules they do not understand and may find ridiculous if they hear them stated out loud. Expecting young children to "share," be nice, and "use their words" when they are almost bursting with urgent, intense, demanding needs and feelings may seem like an invitation to hell.

Brent McBride
I agree with your perceptions, and I would go even further to suggest that most early childhood environments create overt barriers to males. For example, adult male restrooms are a rarity in many early childhood facilities. How can we expect men to show up at these facilities when this is the case?

jpm
Would you mind talking a little bit about some things that are of special interest to you in your research--any findings you didn't anticipate, or a topic that you'd like to look further into?

Brent McBride
Probably the most surprising thing I've found in my research is the resistance by teachers to encouraging male/father involvement in early childhood settings, even when this has been identified as a priority by the program.

jpm
Have you had an opportunity to suggest to specific programs or people what they could do differently? Has there been resistance? Resistance to what you have said, I mean.

Brent McBride
Sure, I was involved (as a consultant) in working with one specific early childhood program for three years on this issue. A lot of lip service was given to the issue and a lot of people went through the motions, yet many teachers did not buy into encouraging father/male involvement as a priority in their programming.

Gail
I require parents to volunteer in my program. Fathers are reluctant, but when they come, they relax and jump in same as all the rest of the parents. I find it is their reluctance more than the teacher's willingness to have fathers participate.

Brent McBride
Many times fathers are never asked, so the word never gets to them. One thing early childhood teachers can do is work through mothers to encourage father/male involvement, that is use mothers as "gatekeepers."

jpm
I'm wondering if early childhood teachers bring their own "father issues" (or "brother issues?") to dealing with the males whose kids are in the program--if that's the case, then it must be pretty tough to overcome, since some of those issues are buried pretty deep.

Brent McBride
As professionals, we all bring our personal baggage to bear. When I work with teachers on this topic, one of the first things I do is have them reflect and think about their own personal upbringing and how this has impacted the way they perceive fathers.

Gail
Perhaps the reluctance I've seen is because my parent body is mostly Hispanic?

Brent McBride
I wouldn't be quick to say that it is a cultural issue. In fact, some of the most successful male involvement initiatives have been in programs that serve largely Hispanic populations.

jpm
Considering Gail's experience, does it seem as if that kind of "you have to do this" structure is an asset?

Brent McBride
There is a fine line to walk if you are trying to "force" men to become involved. If they don't see this as their role, they won't become engaged. They may show up, but that's it.

IELmoderator
We have just a few minutes left in tonight's Chat session. Are there any final questions for Dr. McBride?

jpm
Thanks! What you've said has been very informative and thought provoking.

Gail
Thank you.

IELmoderator
Chat participants, as we have no further questions, we'll bring tonight's session to a close.

barry
NB: This is a follow-up reflection, not a question I wish posted in this session. As I have pondered and listened during tonight's Chat, one thing I consider is that many programs have been successful in recruiting men when they set out to do that. I am sort of less interested in those programs than in the thousands that have not done this, because that's where all the men aren't. I am supposing that a key, yet perhaps unacknowledged, issue is that to be effective in including men they would have to be higher quality (in the ways described by NAEYC's standards). This would take time, attention, planning and resources. If child care were resourced to the level at which all children were in high-quality programs, do you not suppose there would be a lot more men involved as a product of doing so? And I wonder, without taking significant steps in the direction of doing that, do you think it at all possible to make a really significant rise in the proportion of men in child care?

IELmoderator
Thank you, Dr. McBride, for your time in tonight's Chat.

Brent McBride
I appreciate this opportunity to share my perceptions with you on this important issue.

IELmoderator
Thanks to all the Chat participants for your interesting questions and for your patience. Please join us for IEL's next Chat session on Monday evening, June 15, at 7 pm Central Time. And thank you, Dr. Brent McBride, for sharing your insights and your time with us this evening. Thanks again, all, and have a good night.

barry
Thanks very much, Brent McBride, the moderator, and the sponsoring agent!

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